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Skoda/Volkswagen/Audi RNS 5N0 035 730 C/D

Discussions about rSAP and general Bluetooth compatibility of the Volkswagen/Skoda Premium
 
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Skoda/Volkswagen/Audi RNS 5N0 035 730 C/D

Post by Fred » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:13 pm

Hi all, I know this is my first post. But I've been using/battling rsap for many years and wanted to share some experiences. My apologies if this post violates forum rules about lenght. Some things just do not fit within a single paragraph. If you just want to read about the Galaxy S3 and syncing contacts jump to the end.

I'll mostly use Skoda part numbers and names here as I have a Skoda superb outside for testing and severall Skoda bluetooth modules. Just google a little to find the corresponding Volkswagen or Audi part numbers.

I first encountered the (r)SAP Bluetooth profile when I was still developing for Windows Mobile. Yeah, anyone remembers? ;)

Problems were many and large....

Symbian on the other hand always worked flawless (duh).

And now on to Android. My most recent Android device is the Galaxy I9300, or Galaxy S3/S III as we all like to call it.

RNS 510/310
Very often, messages refer to "Bluetooth not working with RNS 510", "Can't connect to RNS" etc. This is understandable as we all know our beloved navigation system is known as the RNS 510 (Columbus) or RNS 310 (Amundsen).

However, strictly speaking we are connecting with our phones or tablets to a small device that is mostly located underneath the front passengers seat. There are quite a few versions of this unit, the difference inside is probably only the firmware. But from a user's perspective the difference is much larger:

  • 5N0 035 730 A
  • 5N0 035 730 B (r)sap, pbap, red dot matrix display, RNS support
  • 5N0 035 730 C (r)sap, pbap, white dot matrix display, RNS support
  • 5N0 035 730 D (r)sap, pbap, a2dp, white dot matrix display, RNS support

Image

Image
(picture clipping due to forum stylesheets)

See also here for a very complete of the different units: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Telephone_Retrofitting.

All the various appearances of these devices are actually variations of the same hardware made by a company called NOVERO. And until recent they only supported (r)SAP. That makes sense, Novero used to be a subsidiary from Nokia. And Nokia was part of the "Car Working Group" at the Bluetooth Consortium and the main driving force behind (r)SAP.

(r)SAP
I put the (r) inside parentheses since the bluetooth consortium officaly only knows about the Sim Access Profile https://www.bluetooth.org/Technical/Specifications/adopted.htm. But in common speak we often use the term rsap instead. Incidentally, anything you ever wanted to know about (r)SAP can be download from the above URL. The full specification to both v1.0 and v1.1 are available, free of charge, on that page.

(r)SAP is great! And also a big PITA :(

It is great, from a technical point of view. Remote hardware, radiation levels minimised inside the car. The unit only communicating APDU's with the phone's SIM using the bluetooth profile.

It's a pain for users. Depending on the implementation, phone's will be usable, partially-usable, completely unusable while the (r)SAP connection is active. SMS may go to your phone's memory, the car's memory or both. Etc. etc.

If your phone does not support (r)SAP, you have little options.

  1. Either replace your current bluetooth unit with a newer version that supports the A2DP bluetooth profile (which is almost universally present on mobile devices, yes: even on the iThingies).

  2. Start a campaign to get (r)SAP support at your phone manufacturer.

  3. And of course if you have an Android phone: use the app from this site.

And then, once you can actually make calls with your phone via your car's bluetooth kit, you want to dial those contacts that are present on your phone.

That brings me finally to the part that started this (and why this message is in the Phone Book Access Protocol):

PBAP
The Phone Book Access Protocol is used to transfer those contacts from your phone into the car's unit. Our site admin has written a lot about (problems with) implementations of the PBAP. And has asked for feedback for PBAP problems with the Volkswagen-Audi-Group (VAG) devices.

Here are some observations then, the list is not yet complete:

  • Don't use "Home", "Work" specific labels for e-mail adresses
  • Don't have XML in memo fields
  • Don't have newline or carriage return in any fields (0x0a / 0x0d)
  • The asterisk '*' is (inconsistently) causing problems in memo fields

On the galaxy S3 contacts with a minimal amount of fields are tranferring fine:

Name, Multiple -labelled- phone numbers, birthday and address -without any newlines or carriage returns-

seems to be the way to go to sync OK.

Sorry for a) my non-native English and b) the lengthy post, but I'm sure peoply using search will find this info due the large number of keywords with a chance to match :). I'm still analysing the exact field contents giving trouble. Should I gain new insights I will update the post.

Cheers,
Fred

 
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Re: Skoda/Volkswagen/Audi RNS 5N0 035 730 C/D

Post by admin » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:24 pm

Should I have forum rules? ;)

Thanks for your insight! I only knew the e-mail attributes as a source of trouble. If you can find out more please post it here for all those who do not want to root their phones or prefer to fix the data!

 
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Re: Skoda/Volkswagen/Audi RNS 5N0 035 730 C/D

Post by ice00064 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:59 am

Hi,

first, let me congratulate about this greate post. as this kind of OEM modules lack about detailed information, even on NET.

regarding module specs, please note that "C" version also works with red (FIS) dot matrix display.
•5N0 035 730 C (r)sap, pbap, red and white dot matrix display, RNS support

I upgraded from 5N0 035 730 to 5N0 035 730 C without any problems (with RED FIS), so I could get the PBAP working on my Nexus S Droid.

Regards,
CO

 
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Re: Skoda/Volkswagen/Audi RNS 5N0 035 730 C/D

Post by Raven_3_ » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:04 am

ice00064 wrote:I upgraded from 5N0 035 730 to 5N0 035 730 C without any problems (with RED FIS), so I could get the PBAP working on my Nexus S Droid.


I also ordered the "5N0 035 730 C" in hope to get PBAP working. Was there any VCDS recoding necessary or did it work out of the box by just replacing the box?

thanks.

 
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Re: Skoda/Volkswagen/Audi RNS 5N0 035 730 C/D

Post by admin » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:47 pm

Found another page with more explanation and more part numbers (in German):
http://bronken.de/aufrustung-von-der-no ... /#more-149

 
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Re: Skoda/Volkswagen/Audi RNS 5N0 035 730 C/D

Post by Narannach » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:47 am

Hi Gents,
Just wanted to say a big thank you for the most useful information on the VW/Skoda blue tooth connection mysteries. I've had my Skoda Octavia for three and a half years and finally have my mobile phone hands free kit working with anything other than a Nokia. Skoda were unable/unwilling to help and the dealers don't have any information. So once again a big thank you. I now have my Samsung galaxy Note 2 connected without rooting using Android software v4.1.2 build number N7100xxDME6

PS iPhone is not compatible, Blackberry Bold 9700 does

Narannach

 
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Re: Skoda/Volkswagen/Audi RNS 5N0 035 730 C/D

Post by caffrey » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:01 pm

Hi there,

I do not understand why the fix of the data cannot be done when the phonebook is being uploaded. I am also using your two apps for the Nexus 5 and some phonebook entries are not uploaded. If the issues that cause this behaviour are known, why can't they be corrected or at least the entries which could not be uploaded be displayed somewhere? Or is this possible? How?

Cheers

 
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Re: Skoda/Volkswagen/Audi RNS 5N0 035 730 C/D

Post by admin » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:16 pm

There are still entries missing with my phonebook app? You can create a log file and check if the missing entries are showing up. If not there is some condition in the Android contacts database that prevents these entries to be visible. Uncheck the visibility option in the latest version (1.1.6) and test if that helps. If the entries are contained in the log you may have found an additional problem. Please mail the entries from the log file to admin at...

 
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Re: Skoda/Volkswagen/Audi RNS 5N0 035 730 C/D

Post by bodameco » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:58 am

Fred wrote:Here are some observations then, the list is not yet complete:

  • Don't use "Home", "Work" specific labels for e-mail adresses
  • Don't have XML in memo fields
  • Don't have newline or carriage return in any fields (0x0a / 0x0d)
  • The asterisk '*' is (inconsistently) causing problems in memo fields

On the galaxy S3 contacts with a minimal amount of fields are tranferring fine:

Name, Multiple -labelled- phone numbers, birthday and address -without any newlines or carriage returns-

seems to be the way to go to sync OK.
Fred


If this type of fields cause problems, could you just add an extra option to the phonebook app to transfer the name and phone number only, leaving everything else out of the sync process?

 
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Re: Skoda/Volkswagen/Audi RNS 5N0 035 730 C/D

Post by admin » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:40 pm

The car only asks for those fields it can handle, only many Android versions ignored and some still ignore this and send all fields they have. My app and many recent phones from Samsung, HTC, ... evaluate the car's request, so there is no need to add an additional option. It would mean: "don't send the fields I don't ask for".


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